Do it. Do it not now, but right now.
P preempts and you think you might raise. Raise immediately.
Played this morning in the BIL play with Luis Tourney (my favorite hour of the week, and the only thing better than playing with Luis is playing against him) and partnered with Luis who bid 3c. I had 11 points and the atx of clubs. I passed. They bid hearts I bid 5c and we went down one. He pointed out that had I bid 4c the auction was likely to end there.
Played this morning in the BIL play with Luis Tourney (my favorite hour of the week, and the only thing better than playing with Luis is playing against him) and partnered with Luis who bid 3c. I had 11 points and the atx of clubs. I passed. They bid hearts I bid 5c and we went down one. He pointed out that had I bid 4c the auction was likely to end there.
posted by Deborah at 7:35 PM
11 Comments:
My question for Badmonster is:
What was par for this deal? 5c doubled down 1? If so, you beat par, which is a victory of sorts.
We got a top. Many were in 4H their way making. Some in 3h. One in 1nt - go figure. +5.80
Playing devil's adovocate, if you bid 4C and push the opponents to 4H, will you then bid 5C over their 4H bid? When will the bidding stop?
I dunno. If I have a fourteenth card can I take a stab at the eight level?
Ok,I'm going to go out on a limb and while acknowleging what I think your saying and say what I think he meant was that if you're going to support anyway that doing so immediately has more preemptive value than waiting. If they bid at the four level before I support I never get a chance to say 4c. But if I do say four clubs maybe they don't bid.
I'm rambling but, do you see what I mean?
Rare is the hand that is willing to bid 3H in a possibly nonfit auction but not bid 4H in a fit auction. If your opponents are novices who are easily intimidated by the level of the auction, then automatically raising whenever your side has a fit has some merit. Otherwise, looking at your hand and trying to figure out what is the likely par contract should serve you better.
Luis's advice was very good. If you think about raising, do it right away. Bidding 4C (or 5C) directly puts much more pressure on the opponents then if you do it slowly.
This is a very important principle in bridge and is often refered to as "giving them the last guess".
Han
My wife is telling me to make my point. So here goes:
Too often we are subjected to the myriad number of bridge nursery rhymes like: 2nd hand low, 3rd hand high, support partner with support, give the opponents the last guess.
None of these aphorisms are substitutes for thinking and understanding the game of bridge.
What do you think is par for this deal? How can I beat par in a competitive auction? How will I accomplish my goals?
An 11 count with JT9x KJTx Q9 ATx is a very different hand than xxx x AKT9xx ATx. The first hand should not raise partner's preempt while the second hand should bid 5C. I object to Luis's comment if he only states," you should raise me to further the preempt" and not if he states," your hand holds more offensive values than defensive values, and you should raise me to X level because that is what I think your hand is worth"
Han, the principle of giving the opponents the last guess is only valid if there is a guess to take. One should not bid 6C with xx xxx xxx xxxxx over partner's preempt in clubs because whatever the opponents will do will be correct. You don't want to push them into a making small or grand slam or for them to double you if that contract is worth more to them.
Instead, try to bid 5C and take away blackwood from them.
Or even try to bid 4C and advancer may feel that (s)he has to give some allowance for partner's wide range for an overcall made in the heat of battle.
Or even try to pysch by bidding one of their suits or NT. The choices are endless. Remember, think about what par should be and see if you can do better than that.
I disagree anonymous. Read for instance a post on Justin's blog, where he explains that good opponents will do better the more room you give them. Bid directly to the level you want to bid and stay silent after that.
What I would do with xx xxx xxx xxxxx after partner opens 3C I don't know, but I do know that I will take exactly one bid, and I will take it immediately.
Han
Han,
Exactly what do you disagree with?
That you should think and analyze before bidding? That you should watch how the auction evolves and use new information to your advantage?
Good players benefit from more bidding space. Good players also know how to play the hands better after the opponents blueprint their hands by their actions.
I don't know who Justin is but I do know who Bob Hamman is. He states the Law of Total Tricks believers and their disciples (Bergen raises and the like) has kept him in business for a much longer time. He feasts on the players who decide their level and take their one preemptive or semipremptive bid immediately.
Bridge is a wonderfully complex and dynamic game. There are parries and counter thrusts. Hand values can fluctuate with every bid.
I don't know what Deborah's hand was? I don't know if she should have passed, bid 4C or 5C or 3NT or 3D or 4NT or psyched or whatever? I don't what was Luis' style of preempting? Rule of 2 and 3? Rule of 3 or 4? Suicidal?
But I do know that a cookie cutter approach to bridge is the surest way to stunt one's development as a bridge player.
Since this is Deborah's journey, she needs to learn not just the how but also the why.
I think I should point out that flaws in Luis's theory may not be Luis's flaws, but mine in transcribing them. Truely, neither Luis nor Han would advocate route memorization without thought. I talk to Han almost every day, so I think he's more tuned in to the way I tend to short hand. Generally, the principle that if you're going to support to x level, you might as well do it sooner rather than after giving the opps fair time to come up with a better plan has merit. Generally. After we look at our hands and thinking about what p is promising and what the opps might do.
I agree that nursery rhymes are not going to make you a winning bridge player.
I also agree with that automatically jumping to the "law-level" is not always best either, it is not a substitute for thinking. Quoting Bob Hamman may seem convincing to anonymous, it has very little to do with the topic here.
Deb phrased it well in her last post: if you are going to bid to a certain level then you should do it soon rather then late. This doesn't apply to all auctions, but it does applies to auctions where partner preempts and you have a fairly weak hand with support. If you are going to bid at all, it is better to do it right away.
This rule doesn't say to which level you should bid. It doesn't preclude you from passing or psyching. It does say that passing first and then saccing later is generally not a good approach. The more time you allow the opponents to exchange information, the more often they are going to get it right in the end.
I think that this is very important concept, and it is pretty clear that Deb does understand the "why".
Han
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